This is an interesting take on shame. I had never considered it as part of the drama triangle at all. Although I am new to the whole thing even for external, objective events. That said, it is a powerful way to view our world. The endless supply of self-appointed saviours is testament to that, from minorities to climate, there is a lot to "save."
I had always thought of shame as just damage from inappropriate levels of criticism aimed at someone, usually in childhood. For shame to take hold and be useful to an abuser the subject would need to be sensitive enough.
But I had never thought of it as the target being an active participant in the process. I really thought of shame as a wound made by others.
The difference between the "more sensitive" and "less sensitive" children could be about how much they agree or "ally" with the accuser. Someone who doesn't agree with the accuser (the criticizing parent or guardian) will not feel ashamed of what they did. Someone who agrees (allies) with the accuser will become ashamed.
The difference could be about how confident that person was in their actions, perhaps having heard from another adult they trust more that the actions were okay. In some cases, a child brought up on videos from a tablet might feel no shame doing things that an adult teacher thinks they should feel shameful about.
It can be because that child imprinted on something other than their parents or teachers first.
My brother and I had a discussion one time, after he learned about the drama triangle by watching me discuss it on Josh Slocum's Disaffected Podcast. My brother and I fought as children, and to me, he was the "persecutor" or bully. But he confided in me later that my grandmother had bad-mouthed me and labeled me as the instigator. In this case, my brother may have felt like he had the right to do what he did because he cared more about what my grandmother thought than my mother. So he may have had no or less shame about those behaviors.
I agree with all that, especially the subjective nature of these things. But I also think inherent sensitivity plays a part too. Not every blow lands on the less sensitive. I have siblings who missed a great deal of our parents insults and attempts to control. Another sibling picked up even on slights.
So I think the substrate, the place it lands, is a crucial factor. Although all children are affected by poor parenting of course.
This is an interesting take on shame. I had never considered it as part of the drama triangle at all. Although I am new to the whole thing even for external, objective events. That said, it is a powerful way to view our world. The endless supply of self-appointed saviours is testament to that, from minorities to climate, there is a lot to "save."
I had always thought of shame as just damage from inappropriate levels of criticism aimed at someone, usually in childhood. For shame to take hold and be useful to an abuser the subject would need to be sensitive enough.
But I had never thought of it as the target being an active participant in the process. I really thought of shame as a wound made by others.
The difference between the "more sensitive" and "less sensitive" children could be about how much they agree or "ally" with the accuser. Someone who doesn't agree with the accuser (the criticizing parent or guardian) will not feel ashamed of what they did. Someone who agrees (allies) with the accuser will become ashamed.
The difference could be about how confident that person was in their actions, perhaps having heard from another adult they trust more that the actions were okay. In some cases, a child brought up on videos from a tablet might feel no shame doing things that an adult teacher thinks they should feel shameful about.
It can be because that child imprinted on something other than their parents or teachers first.
My brother and I had a discussion one time, after he learned about the drama triangle by watching me discuss it on Josh Slocum's Disaffected Podcast. My brother and I fought as children, and to me, he was the "persecutor" or bully. But he confided in me later that my grandmother had bad-mouthed me and labeled me as the instigator. In this case, my brother may have felt like he had the right to do what he did because he cared more about what my grandmother thought than my mother. So he may have had no or less shame about those behaviors.
I agree with all that, especially the subjective nature of these things. But I also think inherent sensitivity plays a part too. Not every blow lands on the less sensitive. I have siblings who missed a great deal of our parents insults and attempts to control. Another sibling picked up even on slights.
So I think the substrate, the place it lands, is a crucial factor. Although all children are affected by poor parenting of course.
It can be both, for sure.