My Backstory & Introduction
I have many thoughts on veganism and the Drama Triangle. If you’re already a subscriber to The Drama of It All, you know half of that. If you’re a subscriber to my “Christian” Substack, then you may know some of the other half.
Please, consider reading the whole article to get the whole picture. I am not proselytizing. I am going to discuss the Drama Triangle. It just takes a while to get there.
My guess is that I have more meat-eaters than not reading my posts. I’m curious. Here’s a poll.
In 2015, I was unhealthy in pretty much every way, and I prayed to God to heal me (or help me heal myself). I prayed for the truth because Jesus said deception would be so strong that, if possible, even the elect would be deceived. Praying for the truth was the most powerful prayer that I’ve prayed and I suggest it to others. But you have to do the work of questioning and/or studying through fear as well.
Questioning Christianity
I was led to uncover many falsehoods within Christianity itself. Although some of my more loyal (to the truth, not me) YouTube followers enjoyed it, I became an outcast to many. I was lied about and called a “witch.” I was viewed as a “persecutor” by those who thought themselves “Saviors.” They thought people would be swayed by me speaking about my thoughts. They wanted to censor me. They couldn’t.
Questioning long-held religious (cult-like) beliefs is scary. I literally wondered about my “salvation” because of the cult-like beliefs from my past. You have to be strong to wonder if you’re wrong. I made a tearful video about it. But God wants all to know the truth, so there is power to get anyone through that questioning period. Since I’ve walked through that fire on more than one, extremely heavy issue, I do have faith that I was being led to the truth.
Everything in the bible became clearer after I learned the truth. A sign that you have been led to the truth is clarity (which is part of how I can see and break down things into the drama triangle so well), and it matches up with the real world. People who lie must come up with complicated stories about why what you are seeing in reality doesn’t “seem” to match up with their beliefs.
Becoming Vegan
You may wonder what this has to do with veganism. After I prayed to get healthier I was led to stop eating meat and dairy (at different times). My main health issue (that I prayed about) eventually disappeared as I also lost plenty of fat. This was a real-world “proof” that what I was doing was healthy. It also made sense to me (from my faith-based beliefs).
During that period of time, I started to question what was real about Christianity and figured, since I knew the bible had been edited (via mistranslations and actual additions) I should go to the source. I asked, “What did the early followers of Jesus believe?” I started studying the Essenes/Ebionites. They didn’t believe in a trinity (because that was man-made). They also didn’t believe in eating meat. They were vegetarian because Jesus told them we were not supposed to eat meat.
Side note: The incident at Antioch was likely that Paul taught it was okay to eat meat and Peter knew it wasn’t. Although people take Paul’s side, everyone in the bible took Peter’s. (From Wikipedia: “To Paul's dismay, the rest of the Jewish Christians in Antioch sided with Peter, including Paul's long-time associate Barnabas”). I could write a lot about the difference between the Essenes and mainstream Christians, and have. But, for this article, I’ll move on.
The things that I was led to by the spirit after I prayed were being spoken about by the followers of Christ in the Nazarene Acts of the Apostles. It felt like they were a confirmation that I was hearing correctly. As if my weight loss and health improvement weren’t enough.
Many Christians will view this idea as sacrilege. I’ve been attacked over it plenty of times. And I know the arguments. I’ve countered them. I trust the Spirit over random people online.
Drama Triangle Dynamics of Meat-Eaters
There are multiple Drama Triangle perspectives there. Christians may view me as a “persecutor” misleading people (apparently unable to think for themselves) into a “Doctrine of Demons.” They would equate me with a demon (persecutor) or say I’m being deceived by demons (victim) and doing their bidding, misleading others.
From a law of attraction perspective, is it any wonder after writing this post all day that someone decided to write the following note to me, insinuating that by cleaning my life up I was inviting demons into it? “You have my prayers” means Andy thinks of me as a “victim” who needs saving via “luck” and “prayers,” by him, of course. I’ve already written about the Drama Triangle dynamics in Christianity.
The Strawman
Others may also see me as a “persecutor” telling them to stop eating meat. I have no desire to do that. But people like to make that up like a strawman argument. Because of my past experiences, I half-expect a response in that vein from someone who was filled with anger and didn’t read the whole article.
People often disagree emotionally (get triggered into a fear state), and in that emotional state of rage, they don’t want to discuss it with rational “arguments”, so they immediately attack a strawman to feel like they’ve “fought” it and won. Yeah, they won an imaginary argument; big win. /sarcasm
Another way to view this in the Drama Triangle comes from meat-eaters seeing me as a “victim” of a “poor diet” (“persecutor”). They want to “save” me and get me to eat meat. I remember meeting someone who found out my blood type and said because I’m O+ I need to be eating meat. It didn’t matter that my body was healing on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Their recently read book was to be trusted against my own experience.
Vegans & The Drama Triangle
My point for bringing this up is that I was in groups on Facebook with Christian Vegans & Vegetarians and friends with many of them. I saw auxiliary posts on my Facebook feed from vegans. I had vegans watching my content commenting on it and had videos shared with me. I know how many of them think.
The Early Followers of Jesus
The early vegetarian followers of Jesus believed that eating meat allowed demons in. They feared demons (persecutors) and thus feared eating meat. But they took personal responsibility not to eat it and to be sure that whoever they ate with wasn’t eating it either (hence the incident at Antioch). They didn’t seek to stop people from eating meat. They didn’t proselytize. They just didn’t engage with them. When I first read this and saw the anger produced by people who didn’t want it to be true (because they wanted to continue to eat meat) I thought that the anger was excessive. It seems like there is an addictive quality to meat eating that causes people to have anger issues. I’m not writing this to say meat-eaters are filled with demons. It may be the early Christians saw the anger reminiscent of an addict as proof of demons.
The Facebook Vegans
As I mentioned I saw plenty of Facebook posts by vegans. I heard the powerlessness that they felt. They see animals in concentration camps factory farming facilities as “victims.” They see those who buy meat as essentially hiring hitmen to kill “victims”, so they’re “persecutors” for bankrolling this practice. The government subsidizes so they’re “persecutors” as well.
One woman said she found it difficult to sleep, she went to bed crying over what’s being done to the animals. The raping of cows, boiling of pigs, and blending live baby chicks, was too much for her to handle. The woman felt like she should be able to stop it like it was her responsibility to take the weight of the world on her shoulders to save these animals, but she couldn’t. It wasn’t her responsibility. It’s the responsibility of the factory farm owners and those who purchase the meat keeping them in business. I know we can only do what we can do and we should not take other people’s responsibility onto us.
Hell is here on earth for these animals. I think that the desensitization that led people to be okay with these horrible practices is part of why we (in general) attracted being locked down during the COVID pandemic. People who become insensitive to the feelings of innocent others (animals) being locked in a cage, don’t care about other people’s feelings in similar situations. If your response is, “But many of the people who locked down were vegan Democrats!” my response would be that they also are often insensitive to the feelings of innocent babies (in the womb) and pro-abortion. We have a problem with being insensitive to the feelings and rights of the innocents who cannot defend themselves.
I don’t often call others “victims” but when you cannot fight back, or take responsibility for the situation (like those animals bred into captivity and babies in the womb can’t) I think they qualify.
I’m not writing this to “save” them or to “save” you. Motivated Reasoning Keeps Us From Changing Minds. It’s impossible. So that’s not my job.
Do You Want to Play Drama Games?
Do you want to play Meat-Eater vs Vegans?
I don’t want to play this game. It wasn’t until 2015 that I started eating healthier. Before then I ate meat. I loved peanut butter & bacon sandwiches and all sorts of chicken (mostly from KFC). I remember as a teenager thinking I could never stop eating cheese because it was in almost everything I ate. No matter how much I enjoyed1 eating (and the ability to eat out), it would never occur to me to make fun of vegans the way people do today.
There is hatred of vegans that causes people to mock and antagonize them. I don’t understand it. Well, I mean I guess people just want the drama. They want the fight. That has to be part of it. They’re getting some sort of emotional boost by dunking on vegans. It may be because they felt attacked first (felt like a “victim”).
Many people I follow and like to read are very pro-meat-eating. I ignore the notes. Last week there was an article about how a Vegan Diet was Linked to Bowel Cancer in a study.
I quoted it in a note, and added the following video:
There’s a study suggesting that a “plant-based diet, especially when rich in healthful plant foods, is associated with better survival among patients with metastatic CRC (Colorectal Cancer).”
In the beginning of
’s article, he writes, “The assault on fat and meat has gone on for years, thanks in large measure to collusion between big agribusiness (especially Big Sugar/BigCorn), dishonest scientists and doctors, and politicians. A couple of fraudulent studies came out in the middle–late twentieth century saying that animal fat is bad for your health.”I like Chris’s work. I share it enough that I got a free “paid” sub for a month. But I see this logical fallacy and I’ve seen enough stupid (in my humble opinion) fighting against vegans for no good reason that it prompted me to want to write about it.
I agree that there are fraudulent studies. I think many scientists, even when they’re not trying, tend to influence their studies to fit their own preconceived notions. I believe I shared this article in the past, but it fits perfectly here as well.
Experiments are supposed to be replicable. The authors should have done it themselves before publication, and all you have to do is read the methods section in the paper and follow the instructions. Sadly nothing, it seems, could be further from the truth.
After meticulous research involving painstaking attention to detail over several years (the project was launched in 2011), the team was able to confirm only two of the original studies' findings. Two more proved inconclusive and in the fifth, the team completely failed to replicate the result.
"It's worrying because replication is supposed to be a hallmark of scientific integrity," says Dr Errington. Concern over the reliability of the results published in scientific literature has been growing for some time.
According to a survey published in the journal Nature last summer, more than 70% of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments.
What good is a study? Chris wrote that he believed some scientists have put out fraudulent studies, and then posted about another study because it fit his narrative (veganism is bad). And, I saw many people, many of whom I subscribe to, share it because of the same reason. People want to push the narrative that veganism is bad. If that’s you, I would ask why that is. What is the motivation for you? It’s a good mindfulness question. It doesn’t have to be public, but if you want to you can leave a comment with your answer.
Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect & Confirmation Bias
The “Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect” was coined by American author Michael Crichton in a 2002 speech, named after American physicist Murray Gell-Mann. It refers to “the phenomenon of a person trusting newspapers for topics which that person is not knowledgeable about, despite recognizing the newspaper as being extremely inaccurate on certain topics which that person is knowledgeable about.” (source of quote)
When you are knowledgeable and know studies can and have been inaccurate because scientists have bad motives, why go on and believe the same group of people?
It’s the fallacy of “appeal to authority” where the authority is a study. But we should already be suspicious of studies. We have competing studies. Mic the Vegan has tons of studies “proving” veganism is healthier than meat-eating.
Am I saying his studies are better? No. I don’t want to talk about studies. I don’t want to be in a battle of who has the better study (appeal to authority). I’m just asking, “Why do we all of a sudden believe studies now that they agree with us?” It’s confirmation bias and often it comes from a desire to dunk on vegans, who are often considered “persecutors.”
Don’t Conflate Vegans & Climate Change Activists
I don’t know any vegans that used studies to dunk on meat-eaters. Maybe the mainstream media that promotes Climate Change has used studies to try to get people to change their behavior. The climate change propaganda narrative is different than veganism. There is some crossover. This Venn diagram is not based on stats or to scale. I don’t know how many vegan climate activists there are. But I see people conflating vegans and climate activists a lot.
If you want more support you shouldn’t alienate people who agree with you. I don’t want to “eat the bugs.” I don’t want to be carbon taxed to “save” the planet as if it’s some victim we can “save.” I made a video on my YouTube channel in 2016 about not trying to get people to go vegan because of the “climate.” That was 8 years ago.
I’ve written: “Climate Change is a Gnostic faith/belief that there is no (good) God watching over the climate of the world. It's a faith in Scientism (not science because they reject scientists who reject the climate change theory). Proposed climate taxes are similar to a tithe to the religion. Since some people reject this theory, it is not a fact we all agree on, but a belief system.”
And I’ve written: “the person with a savior mentality takes on responsibility from thousands to millions or billions of people onto themselves. It depends on what particular political cause strikes them as most important. But, the climate activists think they’re trying to save every single person on earth and all of their future lineage. That is a lot of misplaced responsibility.”
I’m going to continue to write about the Drama Triangle dynamics from a perspective outside of it. I just was a bit tired of seeing people use faulty logic to feel “better” by dunking on vegans with a new study.
Why Do You Care What People Eat?
I feel like a lot of the sharing of these articles dunking on the vegan diet comes from people who don’t want the government to interfere in their lives. They’re probably tired of the propaganda. You and me both. But vegans, in general, aren’t the ones propagandizing you.
Vegans Acting Like They Have the Moral High Ground?
Someone mentioned that they don’t like vegans taking a moral high ground. I’ve seen many meat-eaters puffing themselves up about their morality and intelligence. It happens on both sides. But, since the meat-eaters become accustomed to their kind, they probably don’t see that they’re posting more about eating meat than vegans are posting the opposite. The percentage is very skewed on Substack. It’s probably been 95% pro-meat-eating and 5% anti- and I’m giving that a buffer. I’ve only seen one other person posting about how veganism is good (besides me if you can count me).
But you may be following different accounts than I am. Maybe keep a list and count how many of each side you see in a day if you think I’m wrong. You might be surprised if you start keeping track. And if you’re following people who post pro-veganism stuff and you hate it, stop following them. Why subject yourself to stuff you hate on a daily basis?
Why Do You Care What They Think?
Some of you may feel like vegans think they’re better than you, and this is “putting them in their place.”
Why do you care about what people (who you think are stupid) think about you?
See, I had issues caring about what other people thought about me, and I had to ask myself, “Why do you care what these very mean people think about you?” Turns out I shouldn’t care what they think. And that by caring about what they think and letting it get to me was making me a slave to them and what they thought. So, after going through the process and realizing what was really going on (drama triangle dynamics), I stopped caring about what they thought of me.
If you are of this variety and think that by sharing that “veganism is bad” you are putting them in their place, knocking them off some moral pedestal, then you might want to ask yourself why you cared to “prove” that. It can be (and I’m not suggesting in your case it is) a sign of doubt. A lot of people like sharing “proof” as a self-soothing action to ease the doubt that was previously felt. Also, remember that you’re not making a difference to a vegan. You’re not making a difference to the NWO climate change activists either. You can’t change their minds. That’s not your responsibility.
Leave a Comment
I could write about other reasons why I think people enjoy dunking on vegans. But, I’ll leave the comments open and let you have your say if you’re one of them. People make the joke that vegans make sure to let you know that they’re vegan. But I find meat-eaters to be way more vocal about it.
Vegans tend to have to explain it (when they’re asked why they’re not eating something that someone gave them or why they can’t have something). I never realized how much of our family get-togethers and special occasions and activities are centered around eating until I started fasting and going vegetarian and then mostly vegan. Yeah. I’m not 100% (I eat honey and farm eggs) and the vegans will probably hate me too. So what? My faith is what I base my diet on. I don’t base it on what a vegan organization decided was good.
I don’t want to fight with you all. I don’t care what you do. But if you’re reading this substack, I thought this was a drama triangle dynamic that I could come at from multiple angles, and hopefully, you found it interesting.
BTC Donation Address: bc1q4s6h8rhyqawqlz46ppc3zc5v43duycp8m57h9p
Although I say I enjoyed eating meat I had an issue with gristle & fat. Sometimes after biting into that I would feel sick and stop eating. I found that I enjoy vegan “chick’n” and “be’f” much better than actual chicken or beef because it’s got a consistent taste and I won’t get grossed out by some chewy piece of fat in the middle.
Veganism & Drama ▲ Dynamics Surrounding It